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Armenian Georgian Relations

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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by saleha Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:14 am

Armen Ashotyan: Georgia may find itself between Azerbaijan’s Scylla and Turkey’s Charybdis


Georgia is engaged in a number of projects pointed at Armenia while the latter would never venture such projects, an Armenian parliamentarian said. “Armenia maintains neutrality in the Russian-Georgian relations. Now, it’s important to know whether Georgia’s policy against Armenia is imposed from outside or it’s the republic’s own goal. I am hopeful that it’s an imposed policy. Georgia risks to find itself between Azerbaijan’s Scylla and Turkey’s Charybdis,” Armen Ashotyan, member of the RA parliament and the Republican Party of Armenia, said during a Yerevan-Tbilisi TV space bridge. “It’s also important to clarify where the Kars-Baku railroad will lead. Will it stretch toward Russia and Iran or will it become a train ferry with Central Asia.” He also said that it’s at least naïve to position Kars-Baku as a regional and secure o project. “Armenia is concerned about it own interests while Georgia doesn’t understand that it isolates Armenia on orders from Azerbaijan and Turkey,” Ashotyan said.

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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by saleha Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:17 am

Georgia is on the verge of partition by “historical borders”

In fact what we have now is a totally new Georgia. If we trace the country’s development since 1991 it becomes clear that Tbilisi has been experiencing nothing but losses.

As a rule, misinformation is spread with the particular aim of exploring circumstances, shaping a certain public opinion, and if everything goes according to the plan, information proves to be true. Another advantage of misinformation is anonymity, which under certain conditions may turn into an alibi: we never said it and we know nothing… There was an information leak the other day. If we trust Turkish and Azerbaijani informative sources, Baku and Ankara are going to stiffen pressure on Georgia in order to achieve federalization of the country.
/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Thus, Turkey is determined to split up Georgia, leaving her with only historical regions (Kartli, Shida Kartli (Gori) and Kakheti), which in 1783 were placed under the Russian patronage according to the Treaty of Georgievsk. The rest, i.e. independent Ajaria, Azerbaijani Kvemo-Kartli (Borchali) and the Turk-Meskhets will be distributed «by rights». It is obvious that under such distribution Javakhk may pass to Armenia, if the sides come to an agreement.

As Turk diplomats claim such federation would be the only guarantee for preservation of Georgia’s territorial integrity. But the question is which Georgia we mean – present Georgia, the Soviet Socialist Republic of Georgia or the Georgia of 1918. There is an impression that the term “territorial integrity” has turned into a song which is sung throughout the world in or out of place.

Nevertheless, talks on Georgia’s partition are already in circulation and it is not difficult to foresee Georgia’s future, especially in case President Saakashvili decides on another reckless military attempt, like the August operation, which, by the way, is quite probable on the eve of the US Presidential Elections… But who will serve as an object for «recovering the constitutional order» this time? It can hardly be Javakhk, as in this case Turkey’s intervention would be inevitable, whereas in all probability Saakashvili would be reluctant to strain relations with Turkey. The latter is a member of NATO and can simply block Georgia’s getting a Membership Action Plan (MAP). Thus, the Georgian President dug his own hole, where he can hardly manage to rise from. The spasmodic attempts to call the West and especially the United States for help are like a voice crying in the wilderness. The world is busy with the financial crisis and Georgia’s problems do not worry it much. However, Tbilisi is reluctant to understand it.

In fact what we have now is a totally new Georgia. If we trace the country’s development since 1991, i.e. after the USSR breakdown, it becomes clear that Tbilisi has been experiencing nothing but losses. Zviad Gamsakhurdia, the First President of the Republic of Georgia, led the country into the chaos of the Civil War, losing Abkhazia. During the reign of Eduard Shevardnadze Ajaria was actually an independent region, which only Mikhail Saakashvili was able to return to Georgia. Now Georgia has lost South Ossetia and, finally, Abkhazia.

Separatist tendencies that exist in the republics of the former USSR once more underline the illogical and inaccurate division of borders, fixed before the World War II. By the way the republics, whose borders are more or less accurate, do not face conflicts, Armenia being among them. On the other hand it is rather inappropriate to speak of the «accuracy» of borders, as the current world map gives too broad interpretations on the precision of this or that border…

Concerning Georgia there is also another consideration that prevails over all others. It is the transportation of energy resources. Unfortunately Mikhail Saakashvili used to believe that without him oil would never get to Europe. However, with the beginning of the military operations in South Ossetia, Turkey and Azerbaijan ceased to trust Tbilisi, considering that unruly Mikhail Saakashvili might put at stake the normal functioning of oil-pipeline Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan and gas-line Baku-Tbilisi-Erzerum. After all, the above-mentioned pipelines both pass through Ajaria, Kvemo-Kartli and Samtskhe-Javakheti. Thus, the major war in the Caucasus is still ahead. And if we also take into account the fact that together with Turkey Russia is rapidly increasing its presence in the Caucasus, Administration of the future US President is going to face great difficulties.

Meanwhile, RF Foreign Ministry declares that Georgia is trying to launch another war in the Caucasus. The reason for this declaration has been a number of terrorist acts in the territory of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, as well as in the buffer zone of these republics. RF Foreign Ministry Department of Information and Press states: “There is an impression that certain powers in Tbilisi are consciously straining the situation in the region and are trying to provoke new military operations through a series of terrorist acts”.

Karine Ter-Sahakyan

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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by saleha Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:21 am

Turkey, Azerbaijan worried over Saakashvili's temper

Turkey and Azerbaijan plan to force Tbilisi to accept the idea of the federalization of Georgia.
Analysts say the two countries don't want Georgia to be split, but they do not trust the government of Mikheil Saakashvili and therefore want to strengthen control over strategic communications in Georgia.
On Saturday evening, Azerbaijani news agencies said, quoting a source in the foreign ministry, that Baku would issue Azerbaijani passports to the residents of the Kvemo-Kartli region in Georgia, called Borchaly in Azerbaijan.
After that Azerbaijan would demand that Georgia grant autonomy to the region, the source said, threatening to deploy its troops there in the event of a refusal.
An anonymous source in the Turkish Foreign Ministry said last week that Turkey would demand "security guarantees for the Turkic residents of Georgia." The establishment of a "multilevel federation" will be the only guarantee of Georgia's territorial integrity, the Turkish diplomat said.
Turkey also intends to insist that Georgia "restore the real autonomy" of Adzharia and repatriate all Meskhetian Turks to Georgia and give them special status.
Saakashvili unofficially annulled Adzharia's autonomy in 2004 and has since been forcing Adzharians to register as "Muslim Georgians."
The repatriation of Meskhetian Turks, which the Georgian parliament announced in June 2007, has been postponed for the same reasons. Meskhetians are forced to register as Georgians and to "retake their Georgian surnames," which the majority of them refuse to do.
Alexei Vlasov, head of Moscow State University's information and analysis center studying socio-political processes in the post-Soviet space, said Turkey and Azerbaijan were unlikely to use military force to "convince" Georgia to accept federalization.
They don't want to split Georgia, but they mistrust the Saakashvili government, Vlasov said. Turkey and Azerbaijan have organized leaks to the media to "remind Tbilisi that they have means of influencing the situation."
Adzharia, Kvemo-Kartli and Meskhetia are the transit regions for communications vital to Azerbaijan and Turkey, such as the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan and the Baku-Supsa oil pipelines, as well as the Baku-Tbilisi-Kars railroad project.
Before the war in South Ossetia, Azerbaijan and Turkey considered the Saakashvili government as the only guarantor of these communications' safety. Now they see that they need to control Tbilisi, and have decided to use the Georgian autonomies and their loyal diasporas towards this end.
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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:23 am

Thanks for the articles Armanen and Zoravar.

Obviously both Turkey and Azerbaijan are flexing a muscle here. Anyways, whatever comes out of their policy will not be without Russia's blessing, that's for sure. The South of Caucassuss has often been bargained by Russia throughout history. The question is what would Kremlin prefer....One weak enemy or two strong competitors to its influence? The logical answer is obvious, but international politics and above all the real politik consist of more than pure logic. So let's wait and judge by the objective facts.

As far as our government not sitting idle is concerned, I agree. We should use the opening and at least give Armenian citizenship to the Armenians in Javakh.
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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:26 am

Georgia cedes its natural gas network to Azerbaijan

by Emil Sanamyan
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The Iran-Armenia gas pipeline at Saralanj. Photolure

Washington, - Georgia agreed to hand over the ownership of its natural gas network, which includes the transit gas pipeline from Russia to Armenia, to the Azerbaijani government, news agencies reported.

Under the November 14 deal, announced by Georgian leader Mikheil Saakashvili the next day, Azerbaijan would satisfy the bulk of Georgia's natural gas needs in 2009-13 at below-market prices.

The deal was finalized during an energy summit in Baku that brought together a number of central and eastern European heads and senior officials of states interested in Caspian energy.

Also at the summit, Kazakhstan agreed to expand its oil shipments via Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Turkey through the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline built with U.S. support.
"Property for debt"

Georgia's deal with Azerbaijan is similar to Armenia's deal with Russia, exchanging formal ownership of the gas network - that could potentially serve as political leverage - for a temporary reprieve in prices.

Until this year, like Armenia, Georgia bought most of its natural gas from Russia. Moscow reportedly came close to buying the Georgian gas network, but the offer was declined by Tbilisi on the U.S. government's insistence, which was concerned with integrity of non-Russian gas supplies.

Although the Georgian-Russian border is closed and official relations are suspended, Russia continues to supply Georgia, and by extension Armenia, with natural gas. The biggest gas consumers in Georgia - the Tbilisi electricity network and a chemical plant - are owned by Russian companies.

While Russian-Georgian talks on South Ossetia and Abkhazia resume in Geneva this week, no normalization in relations is anticipated any time soon.

Speaking at the Council on Foreign Relations in Washington on November 15, President Dmitry Medvedev said that Russia was "ready to build relations with Georgia."

"But not with the current [Saakashvili] regime," Mr. Medvedev said. "That is a red line, which we cannot cross."
Armenia impact

Azerbaijan has now promised to cover more than 60 percent of Georgia's overall gas needs - estimated at 1.8 billion cubic meters of gas a year - at below-market prices. The rest of the supplies to Georgia would still need to come at market prices from Azerbaijan, Russia, or Iran.

Armenia imported more than 2 billion cubic meters of gas from Russia last year. In addition to the now Azerbaijani-owned Georgian transit pipeline, Armenia can now potentially import natural gas from Iran - an important safeguard should new problems arise in supplies via Georgia. The Iran option also becomes more attractive as Russia will begin to raise prices for its supplies starting next year.

Consequences for Armenia of the Georgia deal may become apparent soon. Azerbaijan and Turkey had previously used a promise of lower gas prices to Georgia as leverage against Armenia in the form of Georgian support for the Kars-Akhalkalaki rail bypass and other projects.

The Russian-Georgian war already disrupted air and other traffic between Russia and Armenia. Media reports suggested that Georgia was trying to prevent Russian military cargo, including those resupplying its military base in Gyumri, from reaching Armenia.

Considering the continued importance of Georgia transit to Armenia, it is not surprising that both President Serge Sargsian and Defense Minister Seyran Ohanian have visited Georgia since the August war, and Prime Minister Tigran Sarkisian is expected to go soon.

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Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:26 am

Georgian policy against Armenian churches grows more aggressive
21.11.2008 17:18 GMT+04:00
/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The latest incident in St. Norashen Church in Tbilisi is the continuation of Georgian policy of demolition of Armenian churches, an Armenian expert said.

“If preventive measures are not taken, we will lose out cultural heritage in Georgia soon,” Haykaz Alvrtsyan told a news conference today. “Unfortunately, neither the Armenian government nor Holy Echmiadzin developed a precise position on the issue,” he said.

“We just react to what is happening but we have to understand that the Armenian community can’t solve the problem without assistance of the Armenian authorities. We must assume a tough position, not fearing of consequences,” Alvrtsyan said.

On November 16, Georgian monk Tariel Sikinchelashvili instructed workers to raze to the ground the graves of Mikhail and Lidia Tamamshev.

This barbarian act outraged Armenians, who demanded to let the graves in their place. However, Father Tariel gave a harsh response.

Upon arrival of representatives of the Armenian Apostolic Church and parliament member Van Bayburt, the Georgian monk said he just wanted to replace the gravestones to “clean under them.”
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Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:27 am


Armenian side opposes formation of commission on Surb Norashen


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/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Armenian side is against formation of a commission to be charged with a task to clear up whom Surb Norashen belongs to. This church is Armenian, said bishop Vazgen Mirzakhanyan, head of the Georgian Diocese of the Armenian Apostolic Church.

“Five churches should be returned to the AAC, namely Surb Norashen, Surb Nshan, Shamkhoretsots Surb Astvatsatsin (Karmir Avetaran), Yerevanots Surb Minas and Mugni Surb Gevorg. The fact that these churches are Armenian is not questioned. Georgia’s claims that the foundation of the churches is Georgian are absurd. If there is a Georgian archeologist of genius who could define whom a church belongs to, he would undoubtedly be worth of Noble Prize,” the bishop said.

He also refuted the Georgian Patriarchate’s statement that an agreement on formation of a commission was achieved during the November 26 meeting in Tbilisi. “More than 20 Armenian churches have been already transformed into Georgian ones in 1990ies. The Armenian side could agree to form a commission if the problem of these churches is also addressed,” bishop Mirzakhanyan said, Bagin.info reports.

Presently, 32 reconstructed Armenian churches function in Georgia. Majority of them are situated in Samtskhe Javakheti and Kvemo Kartli.

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Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:29 am

Georgian arrests aim to open church-political haggling with Armenia
24.01.2009 17:08 GMT+04:00 Print version Send to mail In Russian In Armenian

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/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The process of preservation of Georgia as an empire has been carried from Abkhazia and South Ossetia to Samtskhe-Javakheti-Tsalka, an Armenian expert said.

"Having lost control over the breakaway regions, the Georgian authorities are trying to cement positions in the Armenian-inhabited territories, targeting people who can struggle for their national values and faith," Vahe Sargsyan, expert at Mitq analytical center said in a statement obtained by PanARMENIAN.Net.

"Grigor Minasyan and Sargis Hakobjanyan are the people who maintained Armenian culture in Samtskhe Javakheti. It's ridiculous that these people are charged of espionage and formation of illegal armed unit. Such actions of the Georgian authorities instigate public hatred not only in Samtskhe Javakheti but also in other regions."

These arrests may aim to open church-political haggling with Armenia and appropriate Surb Nshan Armenian church in Akhaltsikhe and some other churches in the region, according to the expert.
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Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:29 am

Does our government not have $25 000???? How the phuck can we let this happen! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Hovhannes Tumanyan’s Famous “Vernatun” Purchased by Georgian Businessman
[ 2009/02/10 | 14:49 ] society culture

Regnum reports that the famous “vernatun” of Armenian national poet Hovhannes Tumanyan located in Tbilisi has been sold to a Georgian businessman for $25,000. The “Vernatun” was an upper story chamber that the poet used as gathering place for Armenian intellectuals, writers and artists of the day. Levon Ananyan, President of the Armenian Writers Union, has also confirmed the sale of this historic Armenian site.

Mr. Ananyan states that the house appeared on the private market some 4-5 years ago at an asking price of $15,000. He notes that he petitioned the Armenian government to purchase the site at the time but that there was no follow-up on the matter. Mr. Ananyan was hopeful that the issue could be amicably resolved by the governments of Armenia and Karabakh on the 140th anniversary of Tumanyan’s birthday.

During an interview with “Hetq”, Deputy Armen Bayanduryan of the Georgian Parliament and Director of the P.Adamyan Theater in Tbilisi noted that the Tumanyan library had been sold some ten years ago and that he had no news of any recent sale of property. This news was somewhat contradicted by Hovhannes Grigoryan, Secretary of the Writers Union, who stated that the sale of the library occurred within the past 10-15 days and expressed amazement over the 10 year claim.

Mr. Grigoryan added that the site had been under the jurisdiction of the Tbilisi Mayor’s Office, at the request of the Tumanyan heirs. He speculated that the transaction was the work of somebody with contacts in local government.

The “Vernatun” was established by Hovhannes Tumanyan in 1899 at the house where he resided at Behrutyan Street #44 on the top fourth floor. Members of the literary group would meet once or twice a week to discuss and debate various literary and national issues. Permanent members included Ghazaros Aghayan, Avetik Isahakyan, Levon Shant, Derenik Demirjyan and Nikol Aghbalyan. Other noteworthy literary and artistic figures such as Mouratsan, Komitas, Proshyan, to name a few, also attended the gatherings .

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Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:30 am

Tigran Karapetyan Says He’s Ready to Buy Tumanyan Residence
[ 2009/02/11 | 16:53 ] politics
Ararat Davtyan

Labelling the recent sale of the Hovhannes Tumanyan residence in Tbilisi to a Georgian businessman for $25,000 a “shame”, Tigran Karapetyan, President of the People’s Party of Armenia, declared that he’d be willing to buy back the building if it was a question of money. The politician criticized those who remained indifferent to such a development and who didn’t act to purchase the Tumanyan house when it first went on the market 4-5 years ago for $10,000-15,000.

“If it is possible to purchase the house and it’s just a matter of money, I’m willing to buy it. Let the Foreign Ministry set up the deal and I’ll buy it,” declared Mr. Karapetyan today.

He confessed that we had the impression that Armenia’s Foreign Minister was only dealing with the Artsakh issue. “Let him travel to Georgia and take care of this problem and the problems in Javakhk. They are bringing back coffins from Russia. Who is behind this? Official protest letters must be sent to this government and public clarifications demanded,” Mr. Karapetyan stressed.
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Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:30 am

ATA URGES GEORGIAN CULTURE MINISTER TO ADDRESS ARMENIAN MONUMENTS PROBLEM

The Assembly of Tbilisi Armenians (ATA) urged the Georgian Minister of Culture and Sports Nikoloz Rurua to give a legal assessment to unauthorized changes of the image of Surb Norashen Armenian Church. As ATA told PanARMENIAN.Net, the Church, as a cultural monument, should be under protection of the Ministry. “We also demand clarification as regards the other Armenian churches: Sueb Nshan, Shamkhoretsor Surb Astvatsatsin (Karmir Avetaran), Yerevanots Surb Minas and Mugni Surb Gevorg,” said the ATA statement. The members of the organization also turned to Tbilisi city administration with a number of questions regarding Surb Norashen Armenian Church.
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Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:31 am

Very interesting development, keeping in mind this possibility. Can anyone tie the knots? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Georgia, Armenia to formalize strategic relations - diplomat

05.04.2009, 03.23

TBILISI, April 5 (Itar-Tass) - Georgian Foreign Minister Grigol Vashadze said Georgia and Armenia will formalize strategic relations.

"Georgia and Armenia will formalize strategic relations by all means; I believe it will happen shortly," he said in an interview with the Rustavi-2 television company on Saturday.

The strategic relations with Armenia will become an integral part of the country's new strategy of foreign policy.

The previous strategy was drawn three years ago for the period 2007-2009.

At present, the Georgian Foreign Ministry is preparing new documents for 2009-2010. In the previous document, it named its strategic partners the United States, Turkey, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan, and is expected to continue to treat them as such.
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Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:32 am

Police beat dozens of opposition protesters in Georgia

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Masked police beat dozens of opposition protesters in the Georgian capital on Monday in the latest flare-up during a weeks-long street campaign against President Mikheil Saakashvili, witnesses said.

Dozens of black-clad police officers armed with truncheons confronted a protest of about 50 people at Tbilisi's main police station demanding the release of six opposition activists detained since Friday.

Police seized cameras from photographers and cameramen, including a Reuters photographer. The cameras were later returned but the Reuters photographer's images had been erased. Other photographers said their memory cards had been taken.

Tensions are running high in the former Soviet republic, after more than two months of opposition protests and roadblocks demanding Saakashvili quit over his record on democracy and last year's disastrous war with Russia.

The volatile country of 4.5 million people sits on Russia's southern border, at the heart of a transit region for oil and gas to the West.

"This is absolutely unacceptable," protest leader and former Saakashvili ally Nino Burjanadze said of the violence. "We demand a response from our Western partners, to give their assessment of the situation."

Saakashvili said he was tolerating a state of "lawlessness" and accused his opponents of trying to provoke him.

"They think Saakashvili is hot-headed, they insult (parliament speaker David) Bakradze and (Prime Minister Nika) Gilauri, and they try to make us crush them," he told a televised meeting of the parliamentary majority.

Police firing tear gas and rubber bullets dispersed the last mass demonstrations against Saakashvili in 2007. Watched closely by the West, authorities are wary of taking a hard line again, but analysts question how long the stalemate can continue.

Both sides have traded blame for a spate of violent incidents, vying for the sympathy of Georgia's Western allies.

The opposition said that statements by several Western embassies on Friday, in which they criticized opposition protesters for throwing rocks and bottles at Bakradze's official car, had encouraged the government to take a hard line.

"The statements made by the U.S., French and Czech ambassadors clearly gave impetus to the authorities to act as criminals and bandits today," opposition leader David Gamkrelidze said.

The Interior Ministry said in a statement that protesters were hampering traffic and resisted police efforts "to unblock the entrance to the police station and restore traffic movement." It said 39 protesters were detained.

Deputy Interior Minister Eka Zguladze said police had acted inappropriately toward journalists. "It is our mistake. We admit it and apologize," she told a news conference.

Pro-opposition television stations Maestro and Kavkasia said they would temporarily halt broadcasting in protest.

Turnout at the demonstrations has waned, but dozens of mock prison cells erected around parliament continue to block traffic through central Tbilisi. Earlier on Monday, men in civilian clothes armed with knives broke up mock prison cells behind parliament.

The opposition accuse 41-year-old Saakashvili of monopolizing power since the 2003 "Rose Revolution" that propelled him to the presidency.

He has faced renewed pressure since last August, when Russia crushed a Georgian assault on the breakaway pro-Russian region of South Ossetia. But analysts question whether the opposition has the unity or the numbers to unseat him, Reuters reported.
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Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:33 am

Ամօթ Հայաստանի կառավարութեան որ ոչ մի բողոք չի ուղղարկում Վրաստանի կառավարութեան. ընդհակարակը շքանշան կու տայ Միխայիլ Սաակաշվիլիին երբ նոյն ժամանակ մեր հայկական եկեղեցիները կամ քանդւում են կամ ել վրացները կը «վրացնեն»։
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Dome of 14th Century Armenian Church in Tbilisi Comes Crashing Down
[ 2009/11/19 | 17:23 ] important diaspora
Kristine Aghalaryan

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Today, at approximately 4 am, the cupola of the 14th century Saint Gevork Armenian Church in Tbilisi came crashing down. Saint Gevork was a working church up till the 1930’s and was used as a supply depot for the Georgian National Museum till the early 1990’s. Due to its precarious condition, the church stopped being used for any purpose.

St. Gevork is one of the six Armenian churches in Georgia whose legal title is still in question and has not been returned to the jurisdiction of the Armenian Diocese.

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Mikayel Avagyan, Assistant to the Armenian Primate of Georgia, told “Hetq” that church officials have visited the accident site and have informed the Mother See of Etchmiadzin of the situation. Mr. Avagyan said that the large dome came crashing down into the church’s interior section.

“Hetq” tried to contact the Mother See for further details but no one answered the phone at the press office.

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In a statement issued by the Armenian Diocese of Georgia, responsibility for the accident is laid at the feet of the Georgian Ministry for Culture and Monuments Preservation, arguing that the church fell under its jurisdiction.

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“All this leaves the impression that the Primate of Georgia and the Georgian government, not resolving the return of the churches to us and not paying attention to their preservation, have set about to purposefully destroy our important cultural monuments,” reads the statement of the Armenian Diocese.

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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:34 am

Samvel Karapetyan – “We mourn the fact that the Saint Gevorg of Mughni Church in Tbilisi has collapsed. But what about the fate of St. Nishan’s, just 100 meters way?
[ 2009/11/23 | 18:25 ] Feature Stories interview culture
Sona Avagyan

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The Saint Gevorg of Mughni Armenian Church in Tbilisi had a height of some 35 meters and an attractive design, especially on the eastern exterior façade where there were depictions of the benefactors and main altar. There were only two churches with a similar footprint in all of Georgia. The other is St. Mesrop Church in the Shahumyan (formerly Metz Shulaver) settlement in the Marneuli region.

On November 19, the dome of St Gevorg’s came crashing down and the church collapsed. Samvel Karapetyan, who heads the Armenian Architectural Research NGO spoke to “Hetq” about the incident and its significance.

Did St. Gevorg’s collapse due to the fact that it was no longer structurally sound?

Yes, the church structure was unsafe. But this was a result of many decades of neglect. It was Georgia that saw to it that the church deteriorated to the point of collapse. That’s to say, the lead up to the collapse was the result of a specific policy.

Normally, if a structure that possesses some historical value is on the verge of collapse, immediate measures are taken to fortify and secure the building. For example take our churches at Ani that aren’t on the verge of collapsing, some that have only one or two loose stones. The Turks have set up support beams and braces. The same should have been done in the case of St. Gevorg in order to fortify the structure, despite being unsound. The Georgian government can now state ‘we don’t have the requisite funds’, but structural fortifications could have been placed at fairly low cost.


Did anyone raise this concern with the Georgian government? That the church was prone to collapse without necessary renovations?

I know that in 1990, at the end of the Soviet regime, Armenia’s Department of Monuments’ Preservation raised the issue, but I have no knowledge if the issue was raised since then, in the past twenty years. I would assume that it wasn’t.

Wasn’t St. Gevorg’s an Armenian church that had been Georgianized?

No, it hadn’t been subjected to this process. The Georgians were well aware of the church’s poor structural condition and that it would eventually collapse in a few years anyway. That’s why they left it alone. Had it been co-opted, the Georgians would need to have spent huge amounts to repair and renovate the church. In addition, St. Gevorg’s of Mughni, is a church that has played a prominent role on the life of the Armenian community of Tbilisi. Had the Georgians sought to co-opt the church, it would have created a great deal of commotion. Thus, they decided that it would be more convenient for them in the long-run to keep the church in a state of disrepair and wait for its eventual collapse.

During the years 1988-1989, the church served as the Folk Arts Museum. There were various exhibits displayed inside. In 1989, the museum moved and so did all the items on display. At the time, the walls were already showing hairline cracks. I had occasion to visit the church last year. The cracks had grown so large that one could pass through the walls and enter the church. In the twenty years since 1989, one can honestly state that the church’s eventual collapse was the result of official design.

In your estimation, does it now even make sense to talk about the rebuilding of St. Gevorg’s?

Believe me, restoration of the church is a moot point. First of all, the church was a brick structure and when such a church collapses all that’s left is a pile of useless rubble. The same fate befell the Shamkoretsots Karmir Avetaran Church in Havlabar (an historic Armenian neighborhood in Tbilisi) that was blown up in April, 1989. It too was beyond rebuilding since it was a brick structure as well and had been transformed to a heap of rubble. I am convinced that we have lost St. Gevorg of Mughni forever. We didn’t raise the issue of the blowing-up of the Karmir Avetaran Church and now, this church, collapsed on its own. Back then, the Armenian community proposed to the government that they be allowed to pay for the renovation of Shamkoretsots. They not only refused the request but blew-up the church as well.

I can’t say if the Armenian community made a similar request to the government regarding St. Gevorg’s. My guess is that they haven’t. Why? Just take a look at the condition of St Nishan’s. We have about 80,000-100,000 Armenians in Tbilisi alone and many more throughout all of Georgia. Several years ago the church was set ablaze. It still stands but after the fire it’s become deserted; a semi-ruined structure that is now used as a public toilet. And this is sacrilege is happening before the eyes of the Armenian community in Tbilisi.

St Gevorg’s and St. Nishan’s are in close proximity to one another; separated by a mere 100 meters or so. One has collapsed due to years of neglect and we have no knowledge of any official petition by the community or the Diocese (yes, we do have an official Church See there) to the Georgian authorities expressing the desire or will to renovate it. This is also true for St. Nishan’s. Today we mourn the loss of St. Gevorg’s but what about the condition of St. Nishan’s, a church that still stands? Does it await the same fate?

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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:35 am

Georgian Ambassador to RA promises to rebuild ruined Armenian Church in Tbilisi
24.11.2009 17:18 GMT+04:00

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Georgian Ambassador to Armenia Georgy Targamadze promised that the Armenian churches in Tbilisi will be restored and that they will have legal status. After that, the Armenian churches in Georgia will be passed under jurisdiction of the Armenian Apostolic Church, Narek Mantashyan, chairman of the Student Council at the Yerevan State Economic University said after a meeting with George Targamadze.

According to him, Georgia's Ambassador Georgy Targamadze informed that churches are destructed due to earthquakes, often occurring in Tbilisi within last months.

Surb Gevorg (Saint Gevorg) Armenian church, built in the Georgian capital in 1356 collapsed last Friday. Armenian Apostolic Church accused Georgian authorities of indifference to preservation of Armenian shrines, resulted in the destruction of the church.
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