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Armenian Georgian Relations

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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:35 am

Georgian Ambassador to RA promises to rebuild ruined Armenian Church in Tbilisi
24.11.2009 17:18 GMT+04:00

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Georgian Ambassador to Armenia Georgy Targamadze promised that the Armenian churches in Tbilisi will be restored and that they will have legal status. After that, the Armenian churches in Georgia will be passed under jurisdiction of the Armenian Apostolic Church, Narek Mantashyan, chairman of the Student Council at the Yerevan State Economic University said after a meeting with George Targamadze.

According to him, Georgia's Ambassador Georgy Targamadze informed that churches are destructed due to earthquakes, often occurring in Tbilisi within last months.

Surb Gevorg (Saint Gevorg) Armenian church, built in the Georgian capital in 1356 collapsed last Friday. Armenian Apostolic Church accused Georgian authorities of indifference to preservation of Armenian shrines, resulted in the destruction of the church.

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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:36 am

The pesky Georgians are at it again. Here is a video from inside the church [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Armenia Church is being destroyed in Georgia
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Georgian religious leadership and Georgian state bodies responsible for preservation of monuments are planning to knock down Sourb Khack (Sat. Cross), a 7th century Armenian church in Akhaltshkha, Georgia, and replace it by a Georgian catholic church. A number of experts and workers have arrived at the site.

According to the Armenian priest in Akhaltshkha Ter Manouk Zeinalian, to the locals’ efforts at explaining that it’s an Armenian church and that no one has a right to ruin it, workers answer that they do not know anything and are just following orders. Father Zeinalian testifies that: “One of the altars has been destroyed and 4 stones with Armenian inscriptions have been unearthed from underneath. One of the stones has disappeared. One of the arches has been destroyed too. Armenians of Akhaltskha are demanding to stop the process. It’s an Armenian church and belongs to Armenians. ”

Leader of the Georgian Diocese of the Armenian Apostolic Church bishop Vazgen Mirzakhanian is visiting Akhaltskha to discuss the issue.

Note: This article, as with others collected by ArmeniaNow for this category, has been posted according to the originating source. ArmeniaNow is not responsible for content, nor for translation.

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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:37 am

Georgian authorities do their best to clear Samtskhe-Javakheti region from Armenians

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Georgian anti-Armenian policy is gaining momentum, and the recent elections showed it best.

The upcoming elections in Javakhk, if held, might bring this Armenian-populated region in Georgia to confrontation with the central government of Tbilisi. Today’s Akhalkalaki, alas, is no different from what was here 20 years ago: broken roads, poverty, unemployment, mass migration of the working population into Russia. In fact, all of the Georgian President’s statements on the “care taken of the problems of this region” have no value: there are neither normal roads, nor jobs. People here warm themselves with wood not because the region has no gas, but because the latter is too expensive. The situation in Akhalkalaki further deteriorated after withdrawal of the Russian military base, thanks to which Armenians could work in Javakhk instead of leaving it.
June 4, 2010

PanARMENIAN.Net - However, the base was gone, and problems appeared instead of it, unemployment being the most serious of them. Today only 800 people live in the region but they too are already packing up. The situation of the Armenians in Javakheti can be compared with the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh before 1988. The Georgian authorities are doing their best to clear the region from Armenians. There have remained almost no Armenians in the City of Akhaltsikhe, the center of the region. In Akhalkalaki and the neighboring villages, Armenian population forms a majority yet. According to local activists, the only requirement of the Armenian population is to be given autonomy within Georgia and permission to keep records in their native language, develop a culture and literature. But this is what Official Tbilisi cannot and does not want to provide. Instead, they force georgianization of remaining Armenian churches, mandatory introduction of the Georgian language in schools as the principal language. In short, Georgian anti-Armenian policy is gaining momentum, and the recent elections showed it best. But it is not only about the elections. Authorities have turned the Armenian community of Tbilisi into a kind of ephemeral society that can do nothing and does only what it considers good for the Armenians of Georgia. And there are only a few people who assess the situation adequately and realize where the policy of President Saakashvili leads.

Mikhail Saakashvili himself finally came to the conclusion that the best thing to do is to make friends with Turkey and Azerbaijan against Armenia. But, Armenian authorities have their share of guilt in the Georgian leadership’s current policy against the Armenian community of Georgia, too. For some reason we believe that it is erroneous to spoil relations with Georgia, because it is through Georgia that Armenia receives gas and the necessary goods from Russia. That is, we have put ourselves in the position of an applicant, in the position of the weak. No one in the world has yet reckoned and will ever reckon with the weak. If Saakashvili felt the tough position of Armenia in the issue of Javakhk, he would never dare to pursue an active policy of assimilation of Armenians. The region of Kvemo Kartli in Georgia is populated with Azeris, and they enjoy more rights than Armenians. However, it should be noted that any national minority is perceived as unfavorable in Georgia, and so in this respect there is no much difference between Armenians and Azeris in Georgia. The same is true about the xxxs, the remaining Russians and other nationalities. Special treatment is given to Meskhetian Turks, whom Tbilisi is reluctant to accept, despite the commitments signed in the Council of Europe. It should be noted that authorities and opposition share the same view in this issue: Georgia must be populated with Georgians. Here a direct parallel with the pan-Turkists suggests itself: everyone living in Turkey, regardless of his nationality, is a Turk. In fact, Georgia has chosen the same track as Ataturk, who decided to specify the religion instead of the nationality in passports, which is actually done now in Turkish identity cards. Such a democrat as Saakashvili will not probably take this extreme measure, but an attempt to “easy deportation” is already made. Whether Georgia will succeed or fail is difficult to predict. The Javakheti Armenians, for example, are not going anywhere, and it becomes clear from a conversation with them that they are waiting for the Russian military to return. This is not yet announced directly, but the truth is that there are such sentiments. And they cannot but be in a country in which monuments are erected and plaques are put in memory of the butchers of the Armenian nation, bot “eternal friendship and love” is sworn in word, on the other hand.
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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:49 am

Georgia Arrests Armenians (as Russian Spies)


You may have heard in the news about Georgia breaking up a Russian spy ring [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It turns out that 2 of the arrested are Armenians with Russian nationalities:

Georgian Nationals:

1. Bakur Kiguradze, founder of NGO "Globalization Institute", businessman.
- Charged with espionage according to article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on military cooperation between Georgia and other countries.



2. Viacheslav Pluzhnikov, pilot of Georgian Air Forces.
- Charged with espionage according to article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on the flight time-tables and pilots of Georgian Air Forces.



3. Gabriel Ustalishvili, pilot of Georgian Air Forces.
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on military readiness and mobilization resources of Georgian Armed Forces.



4. David Meskhidze, pilot of Georgian Air Forces.
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on military trainings and inspections in Georgian Armed Forces.



5. Gela Kakabadze, pilot of Georgian Air Forces.
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on the numbers of military personnel, weapons, military hardware and transport in Georgian Armed Forces.



6. Gocha Diasamidze, pilot of Georgian Air Forces.
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on the level of combat and operative readiness of Georgian Armed Forces.



7. Tariel Abashidze, pilot of Georgian Air Forces.
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on the working regime, structure and personnel of important military and civil facilities.



8. Ruslan Galogre, businessman.
- Charged with working on special service of a foreign country according to Article no. 311 of Georgian Criminal Code
- According to instructions from the GRU, conducted surveillance on certain individuals.



9. Eduard Abdulaev, sailor, radio specialist.
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on military communications and radio call signs.



Russian citizens:

10. Armen Gevorkian, director of company "Saybolt Georgia."
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on the cooperation between the armed forces of Georgia and other countries.



11. Ruben Shikoyan, deputy director of company "Saybolt Georgia."
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on the contracts signed between Georgian Ministry of Defense and foreign companies regarding military purchases.



12. Petre Devrishadze, businessman.
- Charged with working on special service of a foreign country according to Article no. 311 of Georgian Criminal Code
- According to instructions from the GRU, conducted surveillance on certain individuals.



13. Iuri Skrilnikov, GRU liaison officer.
- Charged with working on special service of a foreign country according to Article no. 311 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Organized meetings with GRU contacts on Georgian territory and transferred secret information abroad.



From what I am hearing through various connections, it is all a "nice story" masterminded by no other than Saakashvili. The arrested Armenians were successfull businessmen who also supported Armenian youth organizations in Georgia. So, with this grand coup, the Saakashvili regime achieved the following:

1- Stole the Armenian's business (Saybolt Georgia) and gave it to his friends
2- Created anti-Russian propaganda
3- Eliminated some Georgians from the opposition (it is interesting to note that 6 of them were Georgian airforce pilots)
4- Slapped the Armenians (particularly the Armenian community living in Georgia)
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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:50 am

Wikileaks: Armenia tries to balance relations with Georgia

By Times.am at 29 November, 2010, 10:02 pm

Here is the summary of the documents, published by Wikileaks, where it is spoken about Armenian-Georgian relations. The summary especially says:

Top Armenian officials are growing increasingly offended by Georgians’ non-responsiveness to Armenian efforts to reach out. The most discourteous, perhaps, was the Georgian FM’s refusal even to meet FM Nalbandian for a few minutes in Yerevan Airport, as she passed through en route overland to Georgia in the early morning of August 15.

President Sargsyan is starting to take domestic criticism for his presumed “failure” to call Saakashvili, after he did call President Medvedev. Armenians feel their good intentions have been met with an undeserved cold shoulder. Both the president and foreign minister remain new enough in their jobs for such perceived slights to sting more than perhaps would be the case of more seasoned hands.

Armenian officials are growing increasingly agitated, in private meetings with CDA, about the continuing refusal of their Georgian counterparts to take their calls, whether at the presidential, prime minister, or foreign minister level. A key presidential aide confided to CDA that President Sargsian had wanted to call Presidents Saakashvili and Medvedev on the same day, so as to avoid any appearance of Armenian bias between the two sides, but that when Medvedev took the call and Saakashvili did not, the appearance of pro-Russian preference was created. After repeated attempts to get a call through, Sargsyan finally just sent a letter to Saakashvili , in a substitute effort to show support for the Georgian side.

Local opposition newspapers have already sharply criticized President Sargsyan for calling Medvedev and not phoning Saakashvili , and have accused him of sacrificing Armenia’s national interests in a misguided effort to cozy up to Russia. This is galling to Sargsyan after his efforts to get Saakashvili on the telephone to offer condolences and assistance.

The Prime Minister, likewise, was frustrated (reftel) by his inability to reach his Georgian counterpart to discuss trade and transportation issues which are of critical importance to the Armenian economy. Meanwhile, Armenian officials have kept their public statements about Georgia determinedly positive, even as their private exasperation mounts, though they have begun to suggest that they will take a sharper public tone if the cold shoulder from Tbilisi continues much longer.

The Foreign Minister called in CDA August 15 for a one on one meeting, in which he vented his own simmering frustration, over what he termed Georgia’s “hostile attitude.” Visibly agitated, FM Nalbandyan noted that Armenia is trying to help Georgia by taking in more than 4,000 refugees and offering to serve as a humanitarian corridor for international relief efforts. He stressed that Armenia needs a good relationship with Georgia not only for economic reasons, but also for its contribution to regional stability. Nalbandyan added that the GOAM had meticulously avoided any statements that could be construed as siding with the Russians. Despite these efforts, Nalbandyan fumed, Saakashvili has refused to return repeated calls from President Sargsyan, and the Georgian PM has ignored calls from his Armenian counterpart “for more than a week.

” The final indignity, according to the FM, was when FM Tkeshelashvili arrived at Yerevan Airport at 4:00am on August 15 en route overland to Tbilisi and declined Nalbandyan’s proposal for a short Airport meeting at that hour. Tkeshelashvili said she was “under instructions” to return to Tbilisi immediately. “What more do they want from us?” Nalbandyan asked rhetorically. He said that the GOAM is “avoiding any negative public statements about Georgia,” and warned that were such a statement to be issued, the reaction of ethnic Armenians in Javakhq (Javakheti) would be “very dangerous” for Georgia. Despite the obvious threat behind his words, Nalbandyan insisted that “this is not a card we could play” with Georgia, but “just a reality.”

CDA spoke briefly with the Georgian Ambassador August 15, after signing the embassy condolence book. When CDA gave a brief synopsis of the meeting with Nalbandyan, the Georgian ambassador said he had been working the phones with Tbilisi for several days to try to set up a Saakashvili -Sargsyan call, but to no avail. Although he expressed frustration at Tbilisi ’s lack of responsiveness, he attributed the failure to the exigencies of the current emergency rather than to any desire to slight the Armenians. The Ambassador added that he would inform Saakashvili ’s office in his next communication that the American Charge had been called in by Nalbandyan about this issue.

And Times.am-Armenian news also presents the whole story on the theme, which is published on finchannel.com. The article is mostly about the Russian-Georgian war, but we have underlined the part conserning Armenia at first.

The full story can be seen here:

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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:52 am

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this is kingdom of georgia in 12th century there is yerevan,kars, dwin and many other city of armenia so thats it mean that example yerevan is geogian historical city? no yerevan is armenian city and dwin and kars... but javakheti and axalqalaqi is historical land of Georgia [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]armenia have meny enemies azers, turks but not georgians we are freands... and i hope you understand me amrenians. in turkey where is not armenian lands in west of kars were are georgian lands, armenian lands are around lake of vani now where are living kurds but its your problem armenians, the river chorokhi and black sea coast with trabzon city is georgian lands! ! ! and now where are living muslim georgians!
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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Victoria333 Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:54 am

Georgians are the biggest backstabbers ever and they can’t be trusted, before shaking hands with them you have to check your rearview mirrors, and after shaking hands you should count your fingers then check your watch and rings if there’re still there. But they are so stupid they think no one know for who they are.
And the biggest dumass is their president the western “Puppetshvili” or “Lapdogshvili”

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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Simba Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:55 am

Georgians threw in their lot with the Turks long ago and they've had it out for Armenians for centuries due to petty jealousies. Many of the reasons why Armenians are aligned with Russians have to do with the fact that the Georgians left Armenians with no choice. Instead of being magnanimous they continue to act on behalf of the Turks and Azeris and use their geographical position to pressure Armenia. Christian brotherhood is wasted on them. They forget that the US will be gone from the region soon and the Turks will show their true intentions as well.

Here's what Georgia should do if their smart:

1) Provide official language status to Armenian within Javakhk.

2) Provide legal status to the Armenian Apostolic Church of Georgia and return Armenian churches confiscated during the Soviet era.

3) End the political persecution of Armenian community activists and leaders and release Vahagn Chakhalyan from prison.

4) End the prohibition on Armenian language books, newspapers and publications entering Javakhk by border officials.

5) End the ban on entry into Georgia of groups of Armenians who work on Javakhk-related matters.

6) Reinstate Armenian language classes in Javakhk schools, which have been curtailed by the government.

7) Stop periodic blockades of Armenia and stealing goods coming from Armenia or going to Armenia.

Otherwise Javakh will be the next region to secede. It will not be good for anybody in the short-term but how long can people be expected to live in a dire situation that is thrust upon them by Tbilisi.
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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Simba Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:57 am

Armenia, Georgia: Baking Bread, Building Understanding
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January 21, 2011 - 9:44am, by Marianna Grigoryan

They may differ sharply at times over language origins, territory, churches, viticulture and more, but, at last, Georgia and Armenia have found one point on which they can agree -- a passion for puri, as traditional Georgian, clay-baked bread is known in Yerevan.

It is, however, no passing inclination. And Georgian bakers appear to be taking note. Attracted by high salaries, many bakers are beginning to migrate to Armenia to share their puri [pronounced “poo-ree”] know-how.

In the West, where international foods easily mix and mingle, this development might seem less than revolutionary. But in the Caucasus, where national food boundaries are often as jealously guarded as geographical boundaries, the phenomenon suggests a potential for change – one loaf of puri (the general Georgian word for bread) at a time.

“When they invited me to work in Armenia, it was a very unusual idea for me,” commented 34-year-old Bakari Bodaveli, a Tbilisi baker who moved to Yerevan about eight months ago. He stretches dough out on a shovel and leans into a 1.5-meter-deep, circular tone [pronounced “ton-AY”], a clay Georgian bread oven, to apply the dough along its walls. “I had never been here and couldn’t imagine [the life here]. Now, I’m getting used to everything.”

That includes the language. Customers and deliverymen cry out “Barev, Bakari!” (“Hello, Bakari!”), as Bodaveli removes the long, pointed loaves of bread – known in Georgian as shotis puri -- from the oven and places them to cool on the slatted wooden shelves typical of Georgian bakeries.

The restaurant that invited Bodaveli rented an apartment in downtown Yerevan for the baker and pays him roughly about $1,000 per month for working 14-hours a day -- unheard-of riches compared with the lari-equivalent of $20-$24 per day Bodaveli said he earned in Tbilisi. “Here they pay me so much that I can even save money, which I couldn’t afford to do in Georgia,” he said.

Baking bread within Georgia is as much an art as baguettes are within France. Not to be approximated. And not to be wrapped in cellophane or dosed with preservatives, dyes or what one puri baker loosely terms “vitamins.”

That lack of preservatives means that puri has a short shelf life – less than a day -- but most Georgians see daily trips to the neighborhood tone as no time burden. Within Georgian culture, bread is “an object of reverence,” wrote Gastronomica Editor Darra Goldstein, a culinary researcher, in her landmark 1993 study on Georgian cuisine, The Georgian Feast.

That reverence for puri now appears to have traveled to Yerevan.

“When you look at puri, it seems to call to you," enthused 59-year-old shop assistant Anush Poghosian, who works at a Georgian bakery in Yerevan. Poghosian claimed that, to keep up with demand, some 30 bakeries now sell purportedly Georgian bread (for about 200-230 drams or 55-64 cents per loaf) in the Yerevan district, Arabkir, where she works.

The Yerevan city government does not make distinctions for business registrations by Georgian bakeries, but estimates that “several times” the official number of 30 puri bakeries opened in the Armenian capital last year. “The number of Georgian bakeries has increased continuously . . . It is really noticeable,” commented Armen Sargsyan, head of the city government’s trade and services department.

Shoppers say that the salt used in Georgian bread explains part of its appeal, by contrast with the saltless taste of Armenian lavash, or flatbread, and other varieties. It is usually bought straight out of the oven, adding warmth to the appeal as well.

“The only bread we buy is puri,” said one woman buying Georgian bread from a tiny shop near a central market in Yerevan. “Of course, our lavash is also very popular and tasty, but my children prefer puri.”

To many Armenians, more accustomed to seeing people leaving Armenia for work than moving there, the phenomenon is also a source of pride.

For the Georgian government, though, the question might be whether the puri Armenian shoppers are buying is the real thing.

In a bid to crackdown on rampant post-Soviet imitations of Georgian khachapuri, a tangy, cheese-filled pastry, the Georgian Ministry of Agriculture last year moved to adopt the European Union’s Traditional Specialty Guaranteed trademark protection system, which would introduce internationally recognized certifications for Georgian food items, based on their ingredients and preparation techniques.

The Ministry did not respond to questions from EurasiaNet.org about Armenia’s puri popularity craze in time for publication.

Meanwhile, one roaming puri baker from Tbilisi – last posting: Kyiv – says he is happy to go wherever puri’s popularity takes him.

“It was difficult to find a job in Georgia, and I’m happy here, “ said Misha Markosian, a 30-year-old Georgian-Armenian who bakes puri for a shop near Yerevan’s Barekamutiun subway station. “I . . earn money to support my family, and my customers appreciate my work.”

Whether in Tbilisi or Yerevan, little more is required for job satisfaction than that, puri bakers say.
Editor's note:
Marianna Grigoryan is a freelance reporter in Yerevan and the editor-in-chief of MediaLab.am.

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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Simba Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:58 am

Lori region - the historical territory of Georgia


28/02/2010

Guram Marhuliya
Each time, getting to know another "masterpiece" of Armenian propaganda, more and more convinced that stupidity is the most important activity of the Armenian scientific and political figures of all sizes.

Foreign Policy of the Republic of Armenia, said Eduard Abrahamyan - "politician" Armenian spill, "must bear emphasized proactive. It should be aimed at making Armenia the most powerful and stable country in the region. Create opportunities out to sea for the RA should be a priority of foreign policy, using for this purpose as the overall financial opportunities as well as all the ideological and propaganda and diplomatic means "[1].

Moreover, in the Armenian media (28.02.2010) appeared requirements (naively hoping that President Mikhail Saakashvili will discuss this issue with Sargsyan) that the Armenian diaspora in Russia, calling themselves "Javakhk diaspora of Russia" demands to declare the Samtskhe-Javakheti region Javakhk Autonomous Region. Armenians made the following conditions:

"We Javakhk Diaspora in Russia, call on the authorities of Georgia and Armenia, as well as all international independent democratic institutions to take immediate steps to end discriminatory policies of the Georgian authorities in respect of the Javakheti Armenians, guarantee the safety of the Armenian population. Based on the realities of having a place in the province of Samtskhe-Javakheti-Tsalka consider priorities:

1. Immediate review of the administrative-territorial division of Samtskhe-Javakheti with the inclusion of Tsalka municipality.

2. Immediate review and amendment of the Constitution of Georgia amendment declaring Samtskhe-Javakheti Region Autonomous Region Naming "Javahk Autonomous Region."

3. Giving the Armenian language the status of regional language in Javakhk autonomous region and an end to forced assimilation.

4. Granting legal status of the Armenian Apostolic Church in Georgia and return secularized Armenian churches, shrines and historical monuments.

5. Immediate cessation of police harassment in the province of Samtskhe-Javakheti-Tsalka cessation trials and prosecutions of Armenian activists edge.

6. Suppress all manifestations of creation of artificial obstacles and prohibitions on checkpoint "Bavra" state border, including the termination of policies to prohibit trafficking of Armenian educational and fiction literature.

7. Restoration at the official level of Armenian names in the province of Samtskhe-Javakheti-Tsalka in Georgia as a whole, including consideration of the return of local place names in the region, which existed in pre-revolutionary Georgia.

We call on all social and political forces of Armenia and the Diaspora, as well as representatives of society who are concerned about the safeguarding of the Armenians in Samtskhe-Javakheti-Tsalka together to harness the fight to protect the rights and interests of the Javakheti Armenians, consistently seek to create for the Javakheti Armenians full conditions for a their future in their native land. "

It is evident that love of the sea taught Armenians their children from early childhood. Matured and a little brush up, they begin to campaign for access to the sea, but naval forces of Armenia, stationed at Lake Sevan, took the Mediterranean coast or at least Black is unclear.

Passage in the Georgian Black Sea coast passes through Dzhavheti for that hint "liquid brains." The aim of this propaganda is the geopolitical interests of Russia and its ally, Armenia. There is no doubt that the Kremlin stepped up its aggressive policy against Georgia, "Armenian question" in Russian foreign policy has a special place - "faithful" allies will not let Russia into their geopolitical games. Armenians are ready to take up arms against Georgia if Russia will give his or her permission and guarantees, but guarantees there is not and is unlikely to be!

Mr Edward that if events develop in an adverse scenario, you? There is no doubt that there is a danger of the existence of the Armenian statehood created in historical territories of Azerbaijan and Georgia.

If on the coasts of Georgia naive Georgian hospitality, live representatives of your tribe, Mr Edward, statehood should not throw the anchor and raise its flag there. Such an attempt during the First World War led to the eviction gaykanskogo people from Turkish lands, the matter is that the provocateurs were the same as you. Hundreds of thousands of Armenians took Georgia in those days, but as time passed, and the descendants of these fugitives now argue that do not live in Georgia, as in "historic Armenia". Armenia has never had access to the sea and had never been to get it. No luck with the geography of Armenia, what to do, so do not be offended by the Speaker of Russian State Duma, which in a manner typical of former chief police officer, acknowledged that Armenia is the only outpost of Russia in South Caucasus. And the outpost - an advanced fortified positions outpost.

If easier, the outpost is designed to temporarily delay the onset of the enemy, then an outpost of losing all significance, and they just donate as a pawn in chess. Therefore, build a grandiose geopolitical dreams are not worth it.

Moreover, now existing of Armenia consists of mostly Georgian and Azerbaijani historical territory, Georgian politicians in the gesture of friendship "in 1918 gave your people part of their historic areas, and in 1921, this part of the Bolsheviks to add more.

We present some of the issues the modern history of the Georgian-Armenian relations, in order to trace the present-day Armenia was concocted from the historic Georgian territories to follow in your "geopolitical" opuses keep your mouth shut if you do not, then at least quiet.

After independence, Georgia and Armenia, 5 June 1918 at a meeting of the Government of Georgia heard the report of the Minister of War Giorgadze "about the situation in Borchalinskom county and the need to clarify the boundaries of the Georgian state." Following the report to the Minister, the Government adopted the following resolution: "To protect the currently existing frontiers instruct the War Minister and Minister of Interior to put armed forces on the border of the county Borchalinskogo, Signagi and Tiflis, for a detailed clarification as to form a border commission" [2].

8 June 1918, Prime Minister of Georgia, was the chief of the German military mission that the Government of Georgia made available to the occupation of territory under the Transcaucasian railway to the bridge on the River. Kure and art. Swill, but in Alexandrapol line of the same road - to the middle tunnel between stations Gharakilisa and Chagall, although based on the state borders of the former Georgian kingdom on the eastern side, a treatise in 1783 between Georgia and Russia, the historic borders of Georgia held on the above items [3]. ( go to the lyrics. Page " )
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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Simba Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:59 am

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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Simba Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:00 am

Hi guys,

Three questions:

1. Re: the following article: Does anyone know if the "professor" Guram Markhuliya is a Georgian Christian or an Azerbaijani living and working in Georgia?
2. Was Adjaria ever inhabited or occupied by Armenia in ancient or modern times?
3. What is the attitude of the Adjarians towards Armenians? Are they hostile, disinterested, dismissive, etc? Does our interaction with the Adjarians resemble more closely our relationship with the Turks and Azeris or our relationship with the Iranians and Lebanese? If they received increased cultural independence, freedom of expression, and economic benefit under an Armenian realpolitik, how virulently would they resist a central government located in Yerevan rather than Tiblisi? How loyal will they be to Georgia if they are guaranteed autonomy from the Armenians that also includes an exponential improvement in their lives?

Armenians mislead by replacing real history with myths - Georgian professor

Tue 01 February 2011 | 05:23 GMT

News.Az interviews Georgian historian, professor of the Sukhumi State University Guram Markhuliya.

I would start my conversation with the direct question. Is the current Republic of Armenia the historical land of Armenians?

The present-day Armenia consists of the historical regions of Georgia and Azerbaijan. Scientists from different countries have not come to a single opinion about localization of the home of Armenians. The search continues.

What does the present-day Armenian state have to do with Cilicia which existed in the 14th century?

The present-day Armenia and Armenians have nothing to do with Cilicia. In 1045 the Byzantine empire terminated the old and unnecessary Anisian kingdom, while the population was partly moved and partly deported and settled in different internal parts of the empire, a significant part of Armenians moved to the Georgian borders, weeping �save and give us shelter, our Georgian brothers! In some period, a definite part of Armenians turned out to be in Cilicia. The Armenian population in Cilicia, created their religious catholicosate, the church figures became the leaders of Armenian people in this sphere. Ruben I became the first Catholicos of Armenian settlers in Cilicia in 1080 and later Armenian historians raised the religious leaders to the rank of princes and when their fancy broke even looser they called them tsars. Thus the Cilician Armenian state appeared thanks to the �powerful� historians of Armenia. Armenians are still searching their homeland in Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey and other countries. The strife to establish the Karabakh state, Javakheti autonomy for the further proclamation of this area as an Azerbaijani state is also the proof. It is possible to suggest with irony that the Armenian �intellectuals� also plan to create the Cuban Armenian Republic, Armenian Republic of Makharashtra in India, and Gujarakert Republic in Gujarat state.

So, if we start speaking about the scientific fantasies of Armenian �scientists�, how can you comment on the statements of Yerevan professor Suren Ayvazyan that Great Britain owes Armenia a billion in an unknown currency and that he planned to sent a letter to queen Elizabeth the Second to at the Buckingham Palace with the demand to return the treasury of the Cilician Armenian state to Armenia?

As far as I know, Suren Ayvazyan sent this letter to the English queen in 2001, but I have no idea of the response sent to Yerevan. In addition, this appeal was published in Kommersant newspaper in 2001. I can imagine the frustration of Suren Ayvazyan after my suggestion but I do not think that the archives of the Buckingham palace has held the intensive search of the �lost check� with the signatures of royal figures-Levon IV and Richard II throughout 10 years since 2001. On the whole, I think with the well-known British humor, I am afraid this Armenian joke was not understood in Great Britain.

Unfortunately, this is not the only Armenian joke. How can you comment on Ayvazyan�s study, according to which �Anglo-Saxons moved from Armenia to British isles in 15-10th centuries BC from the Angle-tin province of Fourth Armenia of the Great Armenia?

There is no doubt that Mr.Ayvazyan used the invaluable manuscripts kept in Matenadaran while studying this issue. According to them, had it not been for �Great Armenians�, the humankind would have stuck in the Stone Age. While informing the world community about this purely Armenian vision of history, Suren Ayvazyan covers the dark sides of the world history with his torch, big like an Armenian nose. This Armenian geologists really believes that the word of three letters �ARM� is under jurisdiction of the ARMenian people. All the same, it is �missed� that we do not know where the Fourth Armenia and khais, like Armenians call themselves, located in the 15-10th centuries BC.

What is the main goal of all historical falsifications of Armenians?

Earlier you asked what the Armenian state has to do with Cilicia which existed in the 14th century. The fact that you asked this question proves the successful and productive work of the Armenian propaganda, spreading the historical lie. There has never been the Cilician Armenian state in history, however, the Armenian propaganda did what it wanted and I do not exclude that in some time such Armenian opuses like the myths of Suren Ayvazyan and people like him, will become a real history for ignorant people. It is this way that Armenians were misleading the world by replacing the real history with their own myths. This is how the concepts like Great Armenia, Armenian upland, Armenian plant and many others appeared together with the Cilician Armenian state, though, in fact there are no such geographical notions.
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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by plhr60 Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:01 am

1. I don't know what his ethnic make up is, regardless, he is engaging in misinformation toward Armenia and Armenians. So he is scumbag.
2. Adjara has been under Armenian control during periods in the Middle Ages, but it has spent more time being influenced by Armenia and its culture, much like the Albanians but not to the same extent.
3. From what I know of the Adjarians, they like Armenians and would treat us well. They almost broke away from georgia until some last minute deal secured autonomy for them. I guess the georgians realized that losing Adjara would be great blow to their country since it would quickly fall under the sway of turkey, Armenia or even Russia. If you know about the Armenian population in Abkhazia, you can compare how our relationship is and would be (more or less) with the Adjarians. Since Adjarians already enjoy something close to independence, I think giving them outright independence would be a great way of getting them to the Armenian side. Regardless, none of this can happen without Russia's support, and we must not forget that turkey would be a player too. The questions then becomes, how active would the turks be? I suppose that would depend greatly on the role Russia played - the more Russia is involved the less the turks will be, in my opinion.
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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by Simba Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:03 am

Thank you for your input. It's surprising the way internal problems caused by Turks and Azeris are projected by the Georgians onto the Armenians. Can't imagine why they're allowing Azeris to settle in such large numbers on the northern border of Armenia when there's more than enough land in Azerbaijan - the country where the oil billions are being generated. Or why the Georgians don't understand the extent to which Saakashvilli has undermined their security.
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GMT + 3 Hours Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Post by plhr60 Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:04 am

Well azeri's have settled more near the border areas between georgia and azerbaijan. The meskhetian turks are the ones I assume you are referring to when you say georgia has allowed them to settle in large numbers near Armenia's northern border, that is, in Javakh. Sadly, the causes of this and why sakofxxxxvili is still popular are due, in large part, to the deeper historical and societal issues that the starter of this thread refered to in the initial post.


And you should know that the majority of azeris in azerbaijan are dirt poor, they do not get any of the financial benefits from the oil or gas. The little sultan and his minions make sure of that.
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Post by plhr60 Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:06 am

Ivanishvili on His Possible Resignation After Presidential Election
Civil Georgia, Tbilisi / 24 Jun.'13 / 03:14



PM Bidzina Ivanishvili has suggested that he might quit his post and go into third sector after the presidential elections this October – that is even sooner than the date he was previously indicating to.

“After the October [presidential] elections there will be completely different situation in Georgia and the government will no longer need my assistance,” he said on June 23.

Like in his previous remarks on the issue, the PM again reiterated that if he sees that his resignation causes negative consequences for the country, “then of course I will not quit.”

He made the remarks while commenting on Sunday his statement made in an interview with the Estonian newspaper, Postimees, in which he says that he will resign after the presidential elections in October, 2013.

In October 2011, when he first announced about his political goals, Ivanishvili said that he was intending to stay in politics for two or three years. After becoming the PM he said in November 2012 that he would quit his post and politics in spring 2014 “if things go perfectly”, but if “the worst case scenario plays out” he would stay for full term and would even run in next elections.

In an interview with the Estonian newspaper, Postimees, which was recorded on June 19, PM Ivanishvili said: “I am going to quit the politics soon. I will stay no more than several days immediately after Saakashvili quits and new presidential elections are held [in October, 2013]. We have a good team; a very interesting president will be elected from our [team]; there is a very interesting speaker of the parliament [Davit Usupashvili] and I have an idea about who could replace me [on PM’s post].”

Asked about these remarks, Ivanishvili told journalists on June 23: “I’ve made such statements for many times previously. You remember my first statement [in October, 2011] where I was saying that I was going to stay in politics from two to three years and at the same time I was clarifying in the same [statement]… that I am not going to leave the country.”

“Quitting politics by me does not mean that I am leaving the country or shunning away from difficulties and responsibilities or from my [pre-election] promises. I will quit the politics when there is no need for me to be [in the politics] and I will engage in more difficult and more needed processes and that is development of the society. My greatest dream is to have a European type society in twenty years. The government with all of its branches – judiciary, parliament and executive – is part of the society, like you [journalists] are also part of the society; experts, analysts, NGOs are also part of one body and that is the society; development of only one part of this body – the government, will not help development of the entire country; the society has to develop, the society is crucial,” he said.

“Therefore I will take care of development of the society for rest of my life. I want to remain active for twenty more years… It will take about twenty years to have the European type of society. The society should learn to elect the best and the society should be able to control the government.”

“I am not going anywhere and I am not running anywhere. I will quit when I first and foremost explain well to my team members and when they understand well that quitting the politics by me will not harm anything and when the society also understands it well. But if question marks remain and if there is a threat that this move will cause [negative consequences] for the country, then of course I will not quit,” Ivanishvili said.

Asked if that might happen this October, he responded: “I think it will be possible.”

“After the October [presidential] elections there will be completely different situation in Georgia and the government will no longer need my assistance. Development of the society will be more needed,” Ivanishvili said, adding that joining the third sector would serve as an important momentum for the civil society, “which should define the country’s strategy and development.”

“I repeat that when I quit [the politics] it will mean that I am going from easer place to more difficult one,” he said, adding that he will do it only after “sorting everything out” in the government.

“If there is even a slight sense of instability and if it triggers questions that it can cause [negative consequence] then of course I won’t quit,” the PM said.

“I think that after the October elections there will be completely different situation in Georgia and there will be no need for me to stay in the politics and if there is still such need by that time, I will definitely stay,” he added.

Asked who will replace him if he quits, Ivanishvili responded: “It’s early to speak about it now.”

Commenting on PM’s remarks made in the interview with the Estonian newspaper, President Saakashvili said earlier on June 23 that “politics is not a kindergarten.”

“That’s a very serious issues, which is related to human’s fate, Georgia’s long-term development and future,” Saakashvili said, adding that where Georgia will be is what matters the most rather than where individual politicians will be.

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